Another note for myself here to balance with PHB halfliings.

This also helps balance the race, unless of course people now feel half-giants are underdone :)

I don't think desert dwarves will need Toughness. Their Magic Resistance might be enough. (I need to check other dwarves when I get my books out).

They get double b/c they are larger, but if carrying all Large-sized gear it should work out as even. So all items 'made' for size Large creatures goes up an encumbrance category.

For eg, the longsword becomes heavy. Meaning it takes 2 spots. Which would be a normal spot on a Medium sized creature as the large ones have had the encumbrance doubled. :)

We have applied racial penalties to ALL races, that is what our drawbacks to; half-elves get the advantage of where to apply those penalties.

At this stage half-elves are ahead of PHB b/c they gain a Wild Talent as extra. Only b/c I have not been into the PHB yet. To keep the PHB races even, I have paired Wild Talent with a usual subrace or race feature and you get one or the other. Meaning in a none-psionic world, the race is still balanced.

Half-elves I guess are based upon choice. I am not sure about the counteracting stat bonus you mean.

Obviously, I am not done with this one. I have to put that feature in vs the Wild Talent. I can't recall half-elven features, but I was thinking the proficiency choice?

Half-Elf Feature:??? still needs to be written unless it is just a half-elven racial feat.

I still may just remove or do I remove Stone's Endurance to distinguish them from goliaths?

(Again. Depends which we we go with Athasian giants: Medium vs Large.)

It makes them better than the comparable goliaths and might take away from the mul (who is also a STR/CON race but with more CON).

Hmm. Can people have a look at what I have and let me know :)

I have shifted a lot of their abilities around (inc on CC Race Page).

I really want to make them size Large, like the half-giants from 2E, but for now I am sticking to Size Medium with 'Powerful Build'.

I could open up the 'Size Large' racial feat, but given these are not ceremonial giants that 'change' it would seem odd.

OR I just say they ARE large which means I would enforce the things in that feat:

• Clumsy (minor) drawback means -2 Dex.
• All weapons made for their size deal twice the listed dice as damage.

Would this be a massive (excuse the pun) advantage?

I reckon I would also have to take away Giant Toughness if giving them Size Large.

WHat are players' thoughts? Do we like the large giants of 2E or do we want to more mimic 4E's treatment of them as goliaths? (I do love the 2E large art :P)

Remember, half-elves in Athas fit into the 'disliked by bother parentage groups' - hence the Wayward drawback.

They also get access to a couple of racial feats that standard half-elves would not :)

Have a look. Tell me what you think.